08-27-2011 at 2:15 PM

Ok, thanks for answering.<br /> <br /> As of now, I'm happy with how it is as it will help better the economy. <br /> <br /> I don't think changing it will help our situation as of now, but I might inquire about it in the later future.<br /> <br /> Thanks Kael.

08-27-2011 at 1:29 PM

No, Shay - I was firmly against the inclusion of past donate-only companions and items. Arctic foxes, Leopards, and Fengs are not included. Nor will Robyn's wedding items be included. I didn't feel it was fair for members who paid for those items to be undermined by a gamble, even if it wasn't being rewarded often.

08-27-2011 at 12:20 PM

I understand right now the economy isn't in the best shape. <br /> <br /> After thinking, I don't think the 2/10 shouldn't be changed right now. At least until the economy is at a better stability. <br /> <br /> However, I can like Kael's idea of removing the super bags and replacing it with past companions. <br /> <br /> I also have a question to Kael. <br /> <br /> I didn't suspect that past donate items to be in the 2/10. (Arctic Fox and such) I haven't gotten myself one, but I believe I heard of it.<br /> <br /> Are the past donate items really in there?

08-27-2011 at 11:27 AM

"The 10 bones may disappear at first, but people end up with even more bones when they sell the rarest items to other players."<br /> <br /> This is flawed logic. The 10 Bones that disappear from the game, disappear from the game. If members sell for profit, it merely redistributes Bones that were there to begin with. The rare item exchange is a money sink (I hate that term because it really denotes something negative to me) because the credit/currency is retired from the game. <br /> <br /> Yes, I could do a query on rare item exchange results, but it wouldn't be in any kind of usable format. Besides, who cares if players are selling their goods for profit? I say more power to them, if they do, because they found a way to recoup cost on something they didn't maybe want from a gambling game. <br /> <br /> "I calculated the net profit of someone who'd done 10 exchanges, and it was something like 100 bones of pure profit (based on lowest user shop price or, for bags, the price of that bag when it was in the Monthly Shop)."<br /> <br /> Unless that player was incredibly fortunate and received something like a soldier helmet or a magical water bowl multiple times, or things like the rats every time for both results, I don't see how this is possible. The most valuable bag in the item exchange has a monthly shop value of 7 Bones. The least valuable bag has a monthly shop value of 5 Bones. Even if you were to get two super bags for your exchange, you're only netting 4 Bones over the 10 you sunk into it (even though bags rarely sell for monthly shop price in user shops). To say that you doubled your money every time, ten times in a row is statistically improbable... I wish I had that kind of luck!<br /> <br /> Myself, I've done the exchange... *counts*... 12 times since the revamp. Here's a synopsis of my winnings:<ul><li>32 Bones (like it would ever sell for this much, haha) - Rainbow Cupcake Platter<br /> <li>$3500 (not even worth a Bone) x 2 = $7000 - Homemade Dog Biscuit x2<br /> <li>3 Bones x 2 = 6 Bones - December Super Bag x 2<br /> <li>1 Bone - Blue Sky BG Pack<br /> <li>4 Bones x 2 = 8 Bones - April 2011 Bag x2<br /> <li>1 Bone - Day Mountain BG Pack<br /> <li>1 Bone - Yellow Sky BG Pack<br /> <li>5 Bones - August 2011 Super Bag<br /> <li>10 Bones - September 2010 Bag<br /> <li>7 Bones x 2 = 14 Bones - July 2010 Super Bag x2<br /> <li>4 Bones - Timestop<br /> <li>5 Bones - July 2010 Bag<br /> <li>7 Bones x 2 = 14 - August 2010 Super Bag x2<br /> <li>$5000 (not even worth a Bone) - Bag of Homemade Dog Biscuits<br /> <li>14 Bones - Custom Accessory Maker<br /> <li>3 Bones - Bandana of Youth<br /> <li>1 Bone - Chocolate Bunny</ul> <br /> I've invested 120 Bones. <br /> Add all that up and, were I to sell everything, I've only made 115 Bones... and $12,000 because some items weren't even worth a Bone.

08-27-2011 at 10:20 AM

I don't think anything can be considered a money sink if people are profiting from it. The 10 bones may disappear at first, but people end up with even more bones when they sell the rarest items to other players. And people are turning a profit - a few weeks ago, I calculated the net profit of someone who'd done 10 exchanges, and it was something like 100 bones of pure profit (based on lowest user shop price or, for bags, the price of that bag when it was in the Monthly Shop). Since the items have depreciated it may not be true anymore, though. Can you see the 10/2 logs in the database? You could calculate just what kind of profit it being turned currently.

08-27-2011 at 9:45 AM

Hm... if we were to add the items to the exchange, but keep the bags.. everything in me says "companions" - but then I realize that's just because I WANT them. xD So my vote goes to backgrounds.

08-27-2011 at 8:54 AM

I definitely don't like the idea of offering only items from the past six months (but will listen if that seems to be the general consensus among players). I enjoy the novelty of the rare item exchange in that it gives new players the chance for something old while remaining a gamble. <br /> <br /> What if we took the super bags out of the exchange and left it so people could only get the regular monthly bags? I hesitate with this because I think the draw will be a lot less for a lot of people, and this exchange is one of the game's top ways of removing currency from the economy (therefore, making the economy more stable).<br><br><br /> EDIT:<br /> What if we left the bags in there, but also added the items contained in the bags... so the chances of getting a bag was greatly reduced? Or we could add all the past backgrounds... or just the companions?

08-26-2011 at 1:52 AM

Oh no, Kael xD What I meant was, to keep the variety but help slow the depreciation of items, separate the items individually, that way you don't get people getting bags upon bags with multiple items in them, but one item that would have been from that bag, instead. This way, you actually have MORE item variety than now, with less people getting bags and introducing four items instead of just two.<br /> <br /> Though perhaps mix it with Xy's idea of only items from bags released within the past six months, just not in bags at all but separate so as not to give someone, heaven forbid, six items (in the case of getting two bags XD), but instead just the two they paid for, with the 2/10

08-25-2011 at 6:43 PM

@Trilobite<br /> <br /> I'm not trying to change the site, but hope to allow my opinion to be seen that the 2/10 is making items less rare and profitable. <br /> <br /> The 2/10 is making prices drop dramatically on old items which should be more rare than they are now. <br /> <br /> I'm not being sore about losing cash, but I want it to be seen that old items are losing money and at this rate, the only things that will be rare is the Amur Leopard release if all items (Monthly donate items, shop bags, and such) are just going to appear in the 2/10.

08-25-2011 at 4:04 PM

It's not so much a loss on a gamble Trilobite, and I don't think Shay is stingy as to suggest so, but it's more about how old items are becoming cheap overall. Putting peoples' investments aside, old items are supposed to grow in worth because as more players join the site, the more demand an item may possibly have. It's like if there was 5 of an item and 10 players. If there was no more of that item released and more people joined bringing it up to 20 players, it makes the item more rare.<br /> <br><br /> Now I'm not saying that we should never release more of an item but items should appreciate over time, not depreciate like cars. I think having them circulate by means of the site sales like Black Fridays and the blowouts to be sufficient enough. <br /> <br><br /> I like the idea of Xy's where we keep only the current bags of the last few months and leave the older ones alone. I think that would be a way to come halfway. It's not completely eliminating the bags but it's not totally leaving them in either.<br /> <br><br /> I was thinking and what if we add some brand new items in the 10/2? Maybe some items that aren't out anywhere on the site? That could make it a little more fun and surprising and sort of diffuse the odds of getting bags and helmets/scholar collars/etc. <br /> <br><br /> Another thing I was thinking of was maybe if it was back to how it was before, maybe raising the price of 10/2 (I can just hear the moans and groans now). That way maybe it won't seem as big of a gain to get a helmet or collar, if that person chose to sell?<br /> <br><br /> Or is there a way to actually set the odds of certain items appearing? Maybe if the 10/2 were to be reverted we could place the emphasis on things like the magical items (excluding water bowl)?<br /> <br><br /> I just think the 10/2 thing could use some tweaking but I'm a little unsure of what would be the best idea or what.<br /> <br /> TL;DR: Items should appreciate not depreciate. Maybe raise price of 10/2 or add more items. Unsure yet of what to do to tweak 10/2

08-25-2011 at 2:15 PM

I agree with Larthan, I think having the individual items in the system rather than the bags would be a good compromise, e.g. instead of getting an August 2010 Monthly Super Bag which you open to find a bird, a hillside, <i>and</i> a cottonseed, you get only one of those items directly from the exchange. So your 2/10 gives you a Hillside Night and a MDB. <br /> <br /> That would keep the items in circulation, but they would be less common. It may end up being unprofitable to 2/10 in the long run that way, but to be honest, I think the 2/10 should be skewed in favor of the site. That's how most gambling places run.

08-25-2011 at 1:49 PM

I don't see a problem with it.<br /> <br /> There's always a risk with hoarding items to sell later. For whatever reason, they don't always end up being as valuable later as was hoped.<br /> <br /> The site shouldn't change something just because somebody's gamble failed.

08-25-2011 at 12:57 PM

@Xylax - The 6 months back sounds more suitable. That's an excellent idea. <br /> <br /> I understand that we needed more variety as the 2/10 was a steal back then almost. I just feel like there can be an improvement than having all the monthly bags in and the value of older items become common like the rat. <br /> <br /> @Hypno<br /> <br /> I'm happy they're circulating, but there will always be future monthly shop items that will probably have the same/similar effects eventually. Once again, I just think too much is not always good.

08-25-2011 at 12:44 PM

It's not just me, Kael. <br /> <br /> I'm speaking for a lot of the older users who have saved items, like Minks, peacocks, Hillside backgrounds, and more. <br /> <br /> I, like other users, have saved a lot of items from the past to sell for later, because I didn't think they'd be available unless through Black Friday. <br /> <br /> I find that prices are just going down for all the past items items and losing value. <br /> <br /> Slightly devalued is an understatement. Rats used to be for about fifteen bones. They're now as low as two bones. <br /> <br /> Peacocks used to be around that, or more. Now they're selling for less and less with alacash. However, thankfully, their bone price hasn't decreased.<br /> <br /> I'm not against items being in circulation again, like rats and peacocks and more, but at this rate, it's becoming where they're losing value from too much circulation. <br /> <br /> Robyn made a good decision to bring Amur Leopards back. She put their prices at 100 bones which I thought was good enough because they were so rare. <br /> <br /> I just feel like there's too much getting in circulation and ruining value.<br /> <br />

08-25-2011 at 11:50 AM

I like the way rats were actually affordable again now, same with cats. It helps the shortage of those invaluable companions. It is rather it stopped the bone/cash inflation - seriously, 15 bones for a rat was totally insane. <br /> <br /> I say leave it as is. <br /> <br />

08-25-2011 at 10:34 AM

Larth, wouldn't that be worse than the way it's set up now? I mean, at least with the bags, you get the chance at getting 2+ items/backgrounds/companions out of them. It also doesn't completely address Shay's complaint...<br /> <br /> Personally, I think the bags being in the rare exchange is awesome. If I am understanding correctly, the reason you don't like it is because your hoarded items are becoming slightly devalued? If we reduce the number of items in the item exchange, there will be even more of those fewer items introduced into game play, and it will devalue <i>those</i> items even more quickly. The whole point of the revamp was to introduce variety... it was due to the lack of variety that background packs were selling for $5,000.

08-25-2011 at 8:59 AM

How about, then, instead of removing the bags altogether... place the items that are IN those bags, into the system instead? That way, you don't do 2/10 and get sometimes way more items than that in the first place.<br /> <br /> Also as a note, I've gotten a lot of homemade dog biscuits/bags of homemade dog biscuits. o.o; They're selling for like 10k for a while bag. I was rather sad when I did 2/10 only to get a homemade dog biscuit and a yellow sky background pack. xD

08-25-2011 at 4:12 AM

eh. Maybe we could remove some bags from the swap.. Like you can get only bags from 6 months back, not more?<br /> <br /> We can't have 2/10 bones rare items to be only rare items, but we removed those that made people riot like Shopreaders and apple pies.. People almost always getting helmets, MWB for 10 bones would be ridiculous. Bags were added to add a lot of something that has a lot of variety.